Lu's style

This was an article that made sense to me and i could also relate to. Lu wants to "invite a multicultural approach to style, particularly those styles of students writings which appear to be ridden with "errors" Lu is asking the question what about the students that get the content of the question and can formulate a good answer, but that have basic grammatical problems?
Lu notes that there are typically two ways of dealing with such a roblem in a compositions class. 1) the teacher takes a couple classes aside and goes over "usage" and copy editing" and then spending the rest of the term helping the students revise. 2) would be to send students to a writing center and hope they can catch up. he says that teachers look at beginners writings differently than that of an "expert"
She gives to examples of authors who were to told they had errors in their text. Stein did not except this criticism because she was educated and therefore had the freedom to do so. This goes off the believe that only when a writer is "error free" can she write in a different style. Its like you have to prove your doing it on purpose to be taken seriously. The other writer was Dreiser who excepted that his work should be edited and his style abandoned because he felt he had not earned the write to do so because for one English was his second language and he was not as educated as the rest of the people who would be editing his work.
As Lu puts it, "ethnic and educational backgrounds were two common denmoninators for determining whether style represented self-conscious innovated experimentation or blundering errors." Lu is pointing out we should not be so quick to judge.
So Lu wants to have a teaching style that does not overlook the students potential lack of knowledge and experience but also does not dismiss the writers potential. So basically if a student has some grammatical errors due to lack of experience or being new to English it should not take away from their work if they comprehend the subjects and can add to the discussion.
lu
For my personal experience i definitively agree with Lu in that we should focus more on what the person is trying to say or if they understand the issue rather what tense they put a verb in. this is what do for myself i would rather understand an idea and be able to contribute to the discussion than not understand but be able to formulate that in perfect English. I try to give this attitude to my tutee, tell him that idea is more important than the structure, which ironically is what the so called "experienced writers do.

ESL-Whats the deal with cutting founding for it?

Stephen SwisherPart I: Exploration1. Identify the issue or problem that you plan to focus on in your Inquiry Project. English as a second language, my father teaches at a Chicago Community College and he told me that the enrollment for ESL classes has dropped dramatically due to a new law holding back loans and founds for those specific classes. I guess I would find out what that law is and how it affects the people.
2. What is your personal connection to and interest in this topic? Both my parents have taught English in foreign countries and I am also multi lingual.
3. What opinions do you already hold about this topic? Besides the fact that every citizen of America should speak or learn English, I don’t think the government should pass bills that make it harder for migrants to learn English; on the contrary they should encourage it.
4. What knowledge do you already have about this topic. What are your main questions about this topic? What are you most curious about? I don’t have much, to any knowledge on this topic, besides techniques my parents have told me on how to teach English as a second language. I would like to find out what kind of programs due schools and the government have that help people learn English in the USA and how they go about it? Also what is the wished for outcome? To be fluent or just manageable?
6. How might composition theorists and researchers approach or study this topic? Does this approach differ from those of other related disciplines (such as communication studies)? Well the philosophy would be different, because I imagine in most cases the students would be adults, which calls for a different teaching method. Also the fact that you have to start from scratch and then in a relatively short time are expected to produce results calls for a more hurried approach.
7. How could you research this topic outside the library (for example, through interviews and/or observations)? Talk to people in the ESL field and to administrators, also try to contact some ESL theorists. Part II: FocusingWrite an initial claim, or an open-ended question, to guide your research on this topic. Make it specific but exploratory. Remember that a good claim opens up an area of inquiry about a topic; a claim should invite evidence, support, and debate. Should it be required by academic establishments or the government to teach future American citizens the English langue or should it be up to the individual?

I

Speaking for others…………..

I have lived both in America and Austria for an extended period; I lived in Vienna for a year last year, so I have come across many generalizations about each country from the other. But I do not know if this would be an acceptable example of academic discourse? I think this just plays off of stereotypes and is obviously not given by an expert. But I did attend the University of Vienna were I can be pretty sure it was academic discourse and were the professor would use America and its citizens as examples but who never really been there longer than a vacations worth. Of course Bush and American politics were often the topic of choice and I felt I was being bombarded by misconceptions and stereotypes. It seemed like to me anything that made the U.S look bad was an acceptable piece of evidence, but I actually agreed with most of what was being said, I guess I just did not like the arrogance of how it was being said. This trip down memory lane does not really seem to getting to the point that I was trying to make or answer the posed question.

Take 2: I can’t think right now. Can you have writers block on an in class writing exercise?

Was there ever a time were I witnessed a lecture given by someone about a culture or group of people that the lecturer was not a part of? Or were my people or community ever the subject? I just don’t know. I know I have but I can’t think of one at the moment. The only thing I can think of right now is when politicians talk for poor people, or students or any community there are not a part of. How can a white male who has grown up in an upper middle class environment talk about or think for a lower class family, but then again that is there job. So I give up.

Don't talk about me, you're no Austrian

"my appeal is to urge us all to awake, awake and listening, awake and operating deliberately on codes of better conduct in the interest of keeping our boundaries fluid, our discourse invigorated with multiple perspectives, and our policies and practices well tuned toward a clearer respect for human potential and achievement from whatever their source and a clearer understanding that voicing at its best is not just well-spoken but also well-heard." (622)
wow, she went to long sentence school. I would like to know if this is considered a well structured sentence, if so why? But jokes aside it makes some good points and kinda sums up the paper, does it not? She is telling us that people should be more sympathetic when writing about different communities, also not to write in an authoritative voice when writing about other races you are not apart of. i agree.
anywho, what is this about? Well in her article she says a writing is not just reading and or seeing but also listening. Her other main point would be how can a writer talk about 099deeeeerwwwwww3788888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888.......that was my cat by the way, adorable. As i was trying to say before i was so rudely interrupted her other main topic is cross boundary discourse and how more often than not is does not work. or should not work. I see her point, I mean i could write about the native Americans and their struggles but not in an authoritative voice telling my reader what they thought and felt. So i guess she kinda exlpains how to remedy this problem through listening. But i most be honest i did not understand this article as well as i would like to and Im really tired, its snowing and i have to walk six miles uphill in that snow. I am looking forward to reading my peers responses and hopefully they will enlighten me.

Bi to the Izzle:

The articles main purpose was to describe two different ways of how a person might write, Inner and outer directed. Bizzel described both very thoroughly using diagrams and then proceeded to theorize which one might be the better. Her solution was to synthesize the two. She also discussed Flowers and Hays, with whom she did not agree.
She began the article by tell her dear readers that she has noticed that some teachers feel they not only have to teach students to write, but also to think. I would agree with that assumption, I don’t know if we mean it the same way, her article being a bit older. I feel this statement rings true in that the average modern student is bombarded with so many distractions and devices designed to make life easier; we don’t have to think as much. Spell check is one example, it’s a great tool that everyone enjoys, but because if it many students will never fully have a grasp of the language. But I digress.
Inner –directed writing, is the group of people that are more interested in the structure and rules of the language, the learning process. This group believes that there basic processes of language that can be taught. There are few ideas which every student can benefit from.
Outer-directed is the group which is more concerned with discourse community itself. This means that different discourse communities have a different language and way of thinking.
In the end Bizzel leans more on the side of outer rather than inner, but she stresses using a mixture of both. Using both methods is the way to go because not every classroom or student is the same, synthesize. Inner blames the students for their lack of knoweldge and outer focues more on the audience, the discourse make the meaning.

A cognitive Theory of writing, we've all heard before

flowers and hays tell us that the "act of writing" has three major elements: the task environment, the writers long term memory and the writing process, and all of these have sub elements and the sub elements have littler subs. This theory is Way different than Summers, because it is NOT linear, and it has SUB categories. Summers theory compared to Hays and Flowers is way off course, she only has pre-writing, writing, and rewriting, which as you can tell is different than the sophisticated three elements of writing task enviroment, the writers process and long term memory. what im trying to say here is they ain't the different, I agree one is more complex and has fancy sub categories, but the only difference seems to be that Hays and Flowers say their theory units all three steps into one....with sub categories. They argue that a "skilled" writer is constantly going through all three stages, which means there is no separation between the steps as Summers argues. It is a dynamic system that keeps happening through-out the writing process.
Anywho, the Writing task process is the topic, knowing your audience and all of the pre-writing activities that are involved, such as rough drafts and any ideas, thoughts or scribbles on the topic. The long term memory process is what we might call the out-lines of the paper, the knowledge one has one the given topic and the knowledge of the audience. The final process and the with the most subs in it, is the writing process, which includes: planing, translating and reviewing, or pre-writing, writing and re-writing. Planing would mean the organizing of the text and the "goal" the writer wants to set. Translating is simply translating everything in the first two steps and the planing process into paper, in laymen s terms, writing. The reviewing process is simply evaluating the text and revising the text.
Oh I forgot an important part, "the Monitor" which is process which "determines when the writer moves from one process to the next" (283) this is determined by our own personal writing habits and the topic on hand.
So basically the ideas are the same but now with a little Grey pou pon on it. We are learning something which i think comes naturally with being an experienced writer. I understand the want to explain writing in a simple to use diagram or theory, but what the authors are missing is the practice and experience needed to become a "skilled writer" comes with....well practise and experience and a liitle of talent and smarts.....run on sentence.

Just fake it, no one will know

David Bartholomaes’ essay describes the problem beginning writers have, they don’t know in what voice to speak in. Bartholomae tells us that beginning writers have to write act like experienced writers but most can’t pull it off. They have to copy a certain style or tone of discourse that they are not experienced in, this makes for uneasy writing. For example when a inexperienced writer writes an argumentative paper, she does not feel comfortable lecturing the reader (the teacher) about something the reader knows ten times more about, so the writer will teach instead. This means the essay will take on the tone of a “life listen” rather then telling you how it is. Students don’t feel qualified telling the teacher something the teacher already knows. Bartholomae says that these young writers are too afraid to take on the authoritative and intellectual tone, because they feel like they don’t derisive it. He argues in order for them to speak to this audience, which I’ll call academia; they have to speak in their language. But how can you speak in a language your leaning? Bartholomae says, fake it. Act like you have read ten books on composition theory and tell the teacher your opinion, find common ground, spark their interests. Bartholomae tell us of the many problems a young writers has, not knowing how to express yourself, not know the subject and discourse or what voice to write in. But his answer is something we all can do, act like we know what we are doing.

I must say, when Bartholomae said when young writers try to imitate a certain style of writing it is almost a parody. I can relate to this, in 12 grade our class went to Main to study marine biology, which was very enjoyable. We still had to have are regular classes, so in our English class we were asked to sit alone on a rock and listen to the ocean and let a poem come to us. Being the young rebellious and sarcastic teenager I was, I napped for the allotted time. When I realized I had five minutes to get 12 lines of poetry done, I dawned my must sardonic and cocky hat and wrote a poem, which in my mind was a mockery of the assignment. But as it turned out, in my efforts to make the assignment and the art of poetry look foolish, I wrote a pretty damn good poem. A poem which was award the highest grade of the class and got published in two magazine, much to the chagrin of the females in my class, who knew my true intentions and felt me unworthy of such accolades. Now I don’t now what this means, but I do feel I write in a style I do not fully grasp to better speak to my reader. Practice makes perfect.